le_souriceau: Hello, Destrin! Thank you for joining us today! I can already sense some objectively exciting content for our readers! :)
Destrin: No problem, glad to be here :)
le_souriceau: There is one question that I can’t skip! :): We Noveans have many interests in common, and every history is unique! So, tell us please about your personal gaming road that led you to DU?
Destrin: Well, i had been looking on and off for other games with similar voxel types to Landmark for a year or so after it was closed down. Every once in a while I get this really strong urge to build something with voxels and try several other voxel games, but they all seem to use what I refer to as "Blockxels". Basically, the more common type of voxel used in games (minecraft, etc). None of them could hold my attention for longer than a week or so.
I found DU on kickstarter and at first was very skeptical about what they were trying to accomplish. From some of the information that SOE (late Daybreak Games) had told their community during the development of Landmark, that a single shard universe made entirely out of voxels is very hard and certain sacrifices has to be made, and Dual Universe was attempting to go forward with some of the sacrifices SOE was going to make.
When translating that from a AAA studio, owned by Sony that had developed one of the very first MMOs, to an independent studio with their first game, my initial impression was it wasn’t going to go well for Novaquark. So I didn't back DU during kickstarter. I waited for a while till they released more information regarding the voxel building system. After they released some video and I saw how close the voxel system was to Landmark's and I wanted in... but of course the Kickstarter was no longer running and they no longer were selling the founders packs on their website... so ... I waited... As soon as they dropped the current packs I jumped right on and have been enjoying myself in DU for the last few years. Without spilling too much right now because of the NDA, the most recent patch they dropped for the beta launch is impressive, to say the least.
le_souriceau: So you are a hungry voxel-building Landmark vet! :) What was your favorite form of building, thematic wise? Castles, giant figures of animals, abstracts?
Destrin: I built a few things, mainly some castles and some PvP arenas. I wouldn't have even considered myself a very good builder in Landmark. I spend a lot of time making games like Battleship, Simon, tic tac toe, whack a mole etc with a system they called linking and triggering. I have played with that a bit in DU as they also have a similar system, but I have mainly been focusing on building in the Dual Universe.
I am more comfortable with the building tools in Dual Universe and feel I have a better understanding of how to form the voxels now. If you aren't familiar with it, the building tools in DU are fairly similar to Landmarks with a few key differences that in my opinion allow for easier manipulation of the voxels. Though, it's not like using Blender or AutoCAD. There are only a few tools and some limitations in how shapes are made, but there is still quite a bit more freedom with the shapes than in a typical voxel building game.
le_souriceau: How do you get your creative juices flowing? Is it about making something with others, showing-off, or its more personal, things you just want to try for yourself? Is it more extroverted or introverted in nature? :) Or is it tied to some specific, arcane inspirations?
Destrin: Well, for me I think it's just the act of creating something with a more free form system than a typical block voxel that I enjoy. As I had said previously, I had tried to pick up a few other games over the years after Landmark and none of them held my attention. Maybe I enjoy the twisting and contorting of the voxels with this type of system, or the problem solving that needs to go into forming the complex shape that I want. It's definitely more involved than a typical block voxel system. The tools do need some work to make them more user friendly in their current state, but maybe I am just the right kind of crazy that makes some of the difficulties in forming a shape an interesting challenge.
Most of the things I build I do it for me. I build things because I want to, or because the Organization I'm in has a cool idea for a project and it interests me. For the most part though, i'm not the most creative person, i use a lot of references and sometimes i end up having to do some plotting on graph paper or use AutoCAD to solve some of the more complex problems before trying to build it in game. I think overall that it's the problem solving, finished product that follows, and sharing that with the friends I have made in game that I enjoy the most.
le_souriceau: In DUs creative reality, you're part of Objective Driveyards – an organization that is quite serious about problem solving :) Older community members know your org quite well, but for sake of new players, can I roll some dice to Gather Information? :)
Destrin: Oh sure, we are not a very secretive :) I would also like to add that I am a member of several orgs :) Though the loudest are Objective Driveyards and Infinity Corporation.
le_souriceau: Several? Hmm… even better!
1d20+10 roll =20+10=30
Natural 20! I have 3 questions. And such roll demands exceedingly great answers! :wink:
First of all the name, Objective Driveyards, sounds objectively sci-fi-ish! One immediately imagines some huge dry-dock where ships are constructed with cranes and stuff! What is the original meaning and message behind it? Can you decode it for us a little bit?
Destrin: I wasn't around when they chose the name so I couldn't really tell you how their name was founded or the conversations around it. I thought it was one of the coolest names of the orgs that were active at the time I started playing DU.
ODY had also been one of the first orgs that had one of their creations featured publicly by NQ, if you can remember the Tidepoint that was one of the things that sold me on the org. ODY has come a long way since the Tidepoint. Some of the other orgs I'm in were created by fellow Landmark vets and I was actually in them prior to joining ODY. At the time they were smaller and I wanted to expand my social network in game. Over time Infinity Corp has grown into being quite loud, and quite active.
le_souriceau: Nice! How does your org structure work? Is it more of free thinkers/tinkerers' Interest club with the right to be in other orgs?
Destrin: In ODY we try to get people doing what they want to do in game first and foremost. If they want to build we try to set them up with materials and elements. If they want to mine we set them up with a ship and send them on their own way. If they want to build a ship for themselves we help with element requirements and basic design philosophies for the game mechanics. We have many members that are also members of other orgs.
When I joined ODY it was fundamentally a ship building org. I think the biggest thing was that originally we didn't want people who were in orgs that would be in direct competition with ODY. However, I think overtime that rule has become somewhat laxed. We are pretty accepting if we feel applicants will be a good fit for us. I feel we are pretty a casual group and just looking to have a good time building something or working to accomplish goals together.
le_souriceau: Is it correct to say that it seems ODY and Infinity Corp are quite natural allies, that share some members and general intent to design great stuff into the game? : ) Is the competition just a friendly one?
Destrin: There is no bad blood between the orgs from my understanding. I think both ODY and IC are trying to remain as neutral as possible. In general I think both orgs are pretty friendly with all of the community. However, I'm sure there is something we have done to unsettle some people. You just can't please everyone. I'm sure that if there was a threat to either of their existences or home territory we would come to each other's aid.
Between ODY and IC there is a good line of communication. We share voxel tools and techniques quite regularly. I think the biggest thing that is not shared is likely some of the Lua that each org develops. That stuff isn't shared, but both orgs seem to have some good coders in them and are able to get done what they want to. I don't know if there is a friendly competition between us, but i do think we use each other to measure progress internally. Which is a good thing IMO.
le_souriceau: Sure, I like that approach too! :) Speaking of progress, what is the envisioned end game for ODY? – what kind of impact on the game world and its history do you want to make? Mass produce super-popular ship models for other players to use or… Mega-projects? There are also rumors of a legendary space-elevator…
Destrin: I think our end game goal is simply to exist, to keep building cool stuff, and push ourselves to our limit. Sure it would be nice to have a healthy market share of the ship selling business, but who really knows how large that market will be. It is a game with voxel building, so personally I think most people will end up making their own ships rather than buying them.
We do like large projects. If you visited our old base prior to the last wipe we really liked building it, and we are hoping to build a large HQ after the beta wipe. It's fun to watch these things grow. And yes :) we are really enjoying the space elevator technology we have developed. It's quite useful. We are unsure how NQ feels about how well it's balanced with other in game, developer designed systems. We have been able to lift to space and bring back down from space quite heavy loads, safely, and in a fraction of the time that the Anti-Gravity Generators can.
However, it does have some downsides. We are locked into a static location. The "needle" or "track" is likely extended up where a TCU will have no protection. Entering the atmosphere is also going to happen in a straight line into a predictable location so it might be ripe for pirates. We have had a blast developing this system and putting it to use while we can.
It's my understanding other orgs did have the idea long before we did. We were just the group crazy enough to build it first.
Who knows.. maybe other groups did make one before we did and kept it quiet. We don't know. As I said before, ODY is sort of loud :)
le_souriceau: Sadly I missed your old base, but I hope the new one will be even better. And with a new space-elevator too! This actually borders on quite a serious question for DU as a game: Crazy and fun projects. If NQ balances things too harshly, they remove fun with it, but if they balance too lightly, challenge suffers. What do you see as the right balance on a conceptual level?
Destrin: Well, it's hard to say. I think overall the game has to be balanced to be fun, or unbalanced in such a way that there is counter game play to make something feel strong but not too strong. With the current systems and no real restrictions other than the build space provided on a core, there are some crazy things that are possible that are not balanced. I even had the privilege of showing JC the space elevator and taking him for a ride. He had some questions about the balance of the tech. Personally, I think NQ needs to provide a power or electricity system, expandable, but very heavy, that does give some restrictions about what can go on certain sized cores.
I'm sure balance will be an ongoing process for NQ, as it is for any MMO. I am also sure if they over nerf something the community will let them know.
le_souriceau: Well, I hope JC will get the right balance in the end :) Speaking of balance and scaling of systems. Do you think NQ must take solo players, or very small groups, gaming experiences into account? Or are the hardliners who say “this is not a solo game” right?
Destrin: There will always be a solo experience in these sort of games, and I feel there is room for solo players in Dual Universe. While it will be more difficult to go alone, take a longer time to get things accomplished, and likely be pretty risky outside of the safe zones, you can definitely play alone if you choose. However, I do feel that the game should be designed in a manner that encourages cooperation. Some people prefer to work alone or feel their schedule would be a burden on an org they join. For the most part the orgs in the community right now are run by adults who are all too aware that life happens. The game is about rebuilding civilization, a social experience, so I would recommend to anyone who wants to play Dual Universe: come in, get your feet wet, and make some friends.
le_souriceau: Well, let’s return to your roots -- voxels! As arch-voxelmancer with quite a large beard and hat, do you think whole voxel mechanics must be more on the “elite” skill side or be accessible to a wider, more casual audience?
Destrin: I believe that more accessible voxel tools and techniques will increase player retention, and make the game world a much prettier place. As DU is a game where anyone can make almost anything, almost anywhere, it will be a good move to make tools easier to use and more versatile. Some people just want to come here to build, and as one of those players I would like to see the voxel tools become easier to use.
Currently the tools need some love. I hope they get us a direct vertex editor in the future. It's something they have confirmed they are working on, so that's good news!
Don't get me wrong, there are lots of people in the game using the basic tools and shapes to make some incredible ships, just look at some work from Jeronimo, Paradine, 1thousandstars, or Watanka, and I'm sure I missed many others. They can do amazing things with the tools with little to no "voxelmancy".
le_souriceau: Yep, I hope NQ will really see into it :) And to expand on quality of life and creation!… There are other voxel-survival-building-something-games around – they may be not that ambitious as DU, but they still have good ideas. Do you want something from one of these to be implemented in DU eventually in one form or another?
Destrin: I have not really played many voxel/survival games for long enough to really get to know much of the systems they have. Though i am pretty positive NQ will introduce more systems and cool stuff to make the game more enjoyable and easier to understand.
le_souriceau: Speaking of long times… Creative-heavy games like DU have their reverse side – burnouts. How do think the overall dynamics of this will work in future? People will be taking breaks in subs, then return with new ideas? Do you have times when you feel you have “no fuel left”?
Destrin: Burnout is real in any game. Some people take breaks and return, some people find something new to hold their attention and move on. It happens all the time, and I'm no different. I'm not burned out yet and have been playing pretty solid for almost 2 years. In DU there is always something new to build or expand on an existing idea, though im sure at some point in the future i may just up and leave. Games with subs in this day and age always get questioned. Many gamers now have grown up in a time where their games are free to play and expect all games should be free to play. Luckily DU's sub cost is less than half of the cost of a typical sub game per month which i find absolutely incredible. I wasn't expecting it and it's amazing.
If I do end up taking a break from DU at some point in the future and cancel my sub, I could easily see myself returning if I have the itch to build something with that sort of cost. I can easily justify to myself that low cost of even just poking my head in the game for a few hours a month and feel like I got my money's worth. Some people aren't lucky enough to be able to justify that sort of cost for some entertainment, but thankfully I am that lucky.
le_souriceau: This risk is especially true for supporting large projects that take A LOT of time and work… I myself was quite a builder long ago in Minecraft. And this reminded me of another quite controversial topic in DU: Cities. How do you personally see their conditions for success and being a functional hub as in JC’s vision? Or are they doomed to be empty monuments?
Destrin: There needs to be a reason to visit the cities or a reason to build them. I do have my concerns that many "cities'' will just be empty shells with no actual function or use. There needs to be a function of the cities that drives people there.
I think overall there needs to be services that players can offer that can be acquired through visiting a city. It also has to make sense for the other players to set up shop there. It has to make sense for both the consumer and producer to have a presence there. If the producer isn’t around there has to be some method for the consumer to use certain elements or purchase things and know they aren’t getting scammed.
First and foremost we need player markets to really get people moving to and from cities and making them feel alive. At ODY we usually have people hanging around our base, working on their own projects which definitely does help the space feel alive.
When building our ODY bases we try to make every space or building have a function, though sometimes the function is "Role Play Space", which is just a space that looks like it has a function such as offices, or a receptionist's desk. While sort of against the DU vision I would suggest to NQ that they give us some sort of buildable or place-able NPCs that we can sit at a desk, or fill a conference room that is role play space to make those spaces feel more alive and actually lived in.
le_souriceau: I hope for the best for cities! Time for the last one! Let’s assume that one night, a flying saucer with friendly green guys lands near your house. They have noticed your successes in DU and make you offer: join them to help the Space Federation to build a new voxel fleet and save the Galaxy from evil Tchuchbaktchu Hegemony (species of mushroom slavers-cannibals)! But there is a price: you can never return to Earth. You have five minutes to make your choice.
Destrin: I would have to say no. There is too much that I love here on Earth. Too many people and things that I am close to that I could never give up given the choice. However, if I was the only option to save the planet and everyone and everything I loved here from obliteration it wouldn't be a choice, I would go.
le_souriceau: Great answer, I honestly expected a joke answer but the one you gave left me sad I asked (in a good way!) Those are words of the true hero of Earth and Galaxy! :) Thank you very much for an interesting conversation! I hope to see a lot of you and your friends' projects realized!
Destrin: Thanks for having me :)
Special voxel cookie to Kurock for proofreading and tips!